Success can be a strange kind of prison. You work hard to build the career, relationship, reputation, and lifestyle you once dreamed of, only to discover that the life everyone admires is not necessarily the life you want to live.

For Keren Eldad, that realization changed everything.

A former C-suite executive who became an executive and personal coach, keynote speaker, and author, Eldad has built her work around helping high achievers escape what she calls the gilded cage of success. Through her coaching practice and books, she helps people examine the expectations, thought patterns, and behaviors that keep them chasing achievement long after it has stopped bringing them fulfillment.

In a conversation with Jules Schroeder on Unconventional Life, Eldad shared how she dismantled her own conventional life, rebuilt it around her authentic preferences, and discovered that freedom requires more than changing your circumstances. It requires changing the way you think about who you are supposed to be.

Her message is particularly relevant to entrepreneurs, executives, and ambitious individuals who have achieved what they set out to accomplish but are beginning to wonder whether the life they built still fits.

When Checking All the Right Boxes Still Leaves You Unfulfilled

Eldad describes herself as someone who lived a conventional life, burned it down, and built an unconventional one.

Until her mid-30s, she followed a path that looked remarkably successful on paper. She excelled academically, attended a prestigious university, served as an officer in the Israeli Army, married, and rose to a C-suite executive position early in her career.

She had accomplished many of the things society celebrates, particularly for women: professional achievement, an established relationship, and the appearance of having everything together.

But behind the accomplishments was a growing sense of dissatisfaction.

Eldad did not enjoy her corporate environment or the work she was doing. Although she was good at her job and had substantial responsibilities, she struggled to see it as her life’s calling. At the same time, she was living in fear within an abusive marriage.

Eventually, the combination became intolerable. Her personal safety and unhappiness forced her to confront a reality she could no longer ignore.

Looking back, Eldad recognizes that reaching such a breaking point forced her to move when she might otherwise have continued tolerating a life that did not fit.

Yet she does not believe people should wait for circumstances to become unbearable before making a change.

“Don’t wait for the trauma,” she advised listeners.

Instead, she encouraged people to pay attention when they repeatedly find themselves questioning their circumstances and wondering whether life is supposed to feel the way it does.

For Eldad, dissatisfaction was not simply a problem to solve. It was an indication that the life she had built around external expectations needed to be reconsidered.

The Most Important Skill She Had to Learn Was Letting Go

When Schroeder asked what enabled her transition, Eldad identified something less tangible than a new qualification, business strategy, or professional skill.

It was the willingness to let go.

She had to release her need to be impressive, her attachment to other people’s expectations, and her belief that there was one correct way to live.

Many of her earlier decisions had been shaped by the desire to look successful and receive approval. Once she began questioning the results those decisions had produced, she realized that building a different life would require a different kind of courage.

That meant learning to say no. It meant tolerating criticism and accepting that people might reject her choices.

For high achievers, this can be particularly challenging. The same qualities that help people succeed in conventional environments, including discipline, ambition, and the ability to meet expectations, can also make it difficult to question whether those expectations deserve to be met.

Eldad’s experience revealed a different measure of courage: the ability to disappoint others rather than continue disappointing yourself.

The transition also required her to accept uncertainty. Letting go of a familiar identity meant allowing herself to discover what she wanted without knowing exactly what the next chapter would look like.

Her story suggests that personal reinvention does not always begin with a clear vision. Sometimes, it begins with acknowledging what no longer works and giving yourself permission to stop pursuing it.

Building an Unconventional Life Took 15 Years, Not One Leap of Faith

From the outside, a dramatic life change can look like a single courageous decision. Eldad’s experience was considerably more gradual.

She explained to Schroeder that her transformation unfolded over approximately a decade and a half.

During the first five years, she concentrated on studying and doing the internal work that would eventually inform her coaching practice. She began examining the way she thought and recognized how much of her thinking had been driven by obligation, fear of missing out, comparison, and external validation.

She started learning to think more deliberately, react less impulsively, and pay closer attention to her intrinsic desires.

Over the following decade, she began translating that internal work into a different professional and personal life.

She launched several businesses to support herself financially while developing her coaching practice. Coaching eventually took off, becoming an unconventional way to earn a living that aligned more closely with her interests and strengths.

Her personal life changed, too.

Eldad married someone she genuinely loved and wanted to spend time with, rather than someone who simply met conventional expectations. She chose not to have children because she did not want them. She built a home around the things she actually enjoyed, including her two cats.

Even her working style reflected a more authentic understanding of herself. She described herself as a writer and creative who enjoys working in a bathrobe with a cat nearby, rather than forcing herself into a corporate environment that never felt natural to her.

These details reveal something important about her philosophy. An unconventional life is not necessarily about making the boldest possible statement or rejecting tradition for its own sake.

It is about making choices that genuinely suit the person making them.

For Eldad, freedom meant creating a life in which her work, relationships, home, and daily routines no longer required her to perform a version of herself that someone else had approved.

The Chocolate Versus Vanilla Test: Are You Choosing What You Want?

During the conversation, Schroeder connected Eldad’s philosophy to a lesson she had encountered through the Landmark Forum: the simplicity of choosing what you like without needing to justify the preference.

If you prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla, you can simply choose chocolate.

The example might seem trivial, but it illustrates a much larger pattern. People are often so accustomed to accommodating others that they struggle to make decisions without considering whether those decisions will be accepted.

Eldad expanded on the idea by describing the familiar situation of being served food you dislike at a dinner party. Some people will eat it anyway because they do not want to offend their host.

That instinct to be agreeable is understandable. But Eldad argued that the stakes become considerably higher when the decisions involve careers, marriages, and the direction of an entire life.

Choosing a partner because the relationship looks right on paper can carry a much greater cost than choosing a meal you do not enjoy. Staying in a career for decades because it offers security, despite knowing it no longer fits, can also mean sacrificing years of fulfillment.

The lesson is not that every preference should become a demand or that people should disregard their responsibilities. Rather, it is that people need to distinguish between a small compromise made for social convenience and a major compromise that requires them to abandon themselves.

Eldad described these lessons as simple but not easy.

Learning to honor your preferences requires recognizing when you are making a genuine choice and when you are simply following a script.

Escaping One Cage Does Not Mean You Are Free

Eldad’s first book, Gilded, grew out of her work with private coaching clients. She wanted to condense the ideas and philosophies she regularly recommended into a single resource rather than ask clients to read 10 to 15 books alongside their coaching work.

At the heart of Gilded is the metaphor of the gilded cage: a life that appears attractive and successful but feels restrictive from the inside.

Yet while developing her work, Eldad noticed that some clients were using the principles they learned to create a different version of the same problem.

Someone might leave corporate employment to start a business, only to work themselves into exhaustion because they still feel compelled to control everything.

Another person might leave an unfulfilling marriage and enter a new relationship that introduces a different set of problems.

The external circumstances change, but the underlying behaviors remain.

As Eldad explained, some people had learned to use her work to create “even shinier cages.”

That realization led her to develop Guilt Free, the second book in her trilogy.

Where Gilded focuses on changing the way people think, The Gilded Journal helps readers practice those new ways of thinking. Guilt Free focuses on changing obligation-driven behaviors so people can sustain the freedom they have begun to create.

Eldad also draws on Jungian psychology and the concept of individuation, which concerns the process of becoming more fully oneself.

Her distinction is important: getting out of a restrictive situation is one thing. Learning not to recreate that restriction somewhere else is another.

Someone can become a successful entrepreneur and still be driven by the same perfectionism that made corporate life unbearable. Someone can leave a relationship that does not fit and still make future choices out of fear, insecurity, or a need for validation.

Lasting freedom requires more than a change of circumstances. It requires examining the internal patterns that shaped those circumstances in the first place.

Stop Trying to Revive a Life That Has Run Its Course

In her coaching practice, Eldad frequently encounters people who arrive at a transition point because something that once worked has stopped working.

They may have reached a plateau in their careers, grown dissatisfied with their relationships, or discovered that the goals that once motivated them no longer feel meaningful.

Their initial instinct is often to repair the existing system. They want to reinvigorate their business, rediscover their motivation, or find a way to make their current life exciting again.

But Eldad challenges them to consider whether they are trying to revive something that has genuinely run its course.

As she put it, “There’s no reason to reinvigorate a machine that’s dead.”

The point is not that every period of dissatisfaction signals the need for a dramatic departure. Long-term relationships, careers, and businesses naturally encounter difficulties, and some problems can be resolved through honest communication and meaningful changes.

The deeper question is whether the situation itself remains right for the person living it.

Eldad gave examples of people who suppress important parts of themselves because they fear the consequences of acknowledging what they want. Someone might recognize their sexuality later in life, realize they want to pursue creative work instead of continuing in an established career, or acknowledge that a relationship has never genuinely been the right fit.

In each case, the individual may have suspected the truth for years but avoided acting on it because of what they believed they might lose.

The cost could involve reputation, financial security, social standing, relationships, or a familiar identity.

Eldad describes this kind of self-compromise as a bargain in which people trade parts of themselves to preserve the life they have built.

Her proposed antidote is honesty.

That means admitting what is no longer true, examining the fear behind continued inaction, and deciding what to do with that knowledge.

The process may be uncomfortable, but avoiding the truth does not necessarily eliminate its cost. It can simply extend the time spent living in a situation that no longer fits.

What If the Person You Think You Are Is Who You Learned to Be?

One of Eldad’s most significant observations is that people often confuse their conditioned identity with their authentic self.

When someone says, “This is who I am,” they may be describing a set of beliefs and behaviors developed over many years to gain approval, meet expectations, or remain within the boundaries of what felt acceptable.

Those patterns can become so familiar that they seem like permanent characteristics rather than learned responses.

Eldad encourages people to question that assumption.

The person they believe themselves to be may have been shaped by their upbringing, social environment, cultural expectations, and repeated efforts to fit in. Discovering who they really are requires examining those influences rather than accepting every familiar belief as the truth.

This process can involve dismantling ideas about what success should look like, what a good life is supposed to include, and which ambitions are genuinely their own.

It can also mean recognizing that a desire does not become invalid simply because it arrives later in life or contradicts choices made in the past.

For ambitious people in particular, this distinction can be transformative. Their identities may have become so closely associated with professional achievement, reliability, or being the person who always delivers that they struggle to imagine who they would be without those roles.

Eldad’s work invites them to separate what they have learned to do from who they actually want to be.

The goal is not to discard every part of one’s past. It is to become more conscious of which parts remain meaningful and which have been maintained out of habit or obligation.

A Different Definition of Success Begins With Authenticity

During the rapid-fire round, Schroeder asked Eldad what living an unconventional life means to her.

Her answer brought the conversation back to its central principle: living on your own terms in a way that honors your authenticity.

That philosophy is reflected in the choices she has made since leaving her former life. She has built a coaching practice, written books, developed her own body of work, and created a personal life around relationships and routines she genuinely values.

Even the smaller details matter. Eldad spoke about SoulCycle as a regular practice that supports her success, emphasizing that she enjoys exercise that makes her happy. When asked what she is most proud of, she named her marriage.

These answers reveal that her definition of achievement extends beyond professional milestones. Success also means having a life that feels right to live.

For people accustomed to measuring progress through promotions, revenue, recognition, or visible accomplishments, that can require a substantial shift in perspective.

The question becomes not only whether you can achieve something, but whether the achievement is worth pursuing in the first place.

It also means accepting that an authentic life may look different from what other people expect. It may include unconventional career choices, unexpected personal decisions, or the willingness to change direction after years of pursuing a particular goal.

There is no universal template for that life.

There is only the ongoing work of recognizing what matters to you and making choices that reflect it.

You Are Allowed to Become Someone Different

Eldad’s story is ultimately about the freedom to change.

She spent years following a path that appeared successful, only to discover that external approval could not substitute for personal fulfillment. Rebuilding her life required her to question the beliefs that had guided her decisions, experiment with a different way of working and living, and accept that other people might not understand her choices.

Her experience also demonstrates that transformation is rarely finished with one decision. It is an ongoing process of recognizing when old patterns return and choosing whether to continue following them.

As the conversation came to a close, Schroeder reflected on the possibility of making a new choice at any age. Eldad responded by recalling a line attributed to Alan Watts:

“You are under no obligation to be who you were 5 minutes ago.”

It is a fitting conclusion to a conversation about identity, ambition, and the courage to live differently.

You can appreciate what your past has taught you without remaining bound to every decision you have made. You can acknowledge the life you built while recognizing that it may no longer be the life you want.

And you can begin making different choices before dissatisfaction becomes a crisis.

The unconventional life, in Eldad’s view, is not necessarily the one that looks most extraordinary from the outside. It is the one that allows you to be who you really are.

 

For more than 30 years, trial attorney Genie Harrison has challenged systems that protect the powerful at the expense of the vulnerable. But behind her landmark legal victories is a deeply personal mission: helping people recognize that their power has never truly been lost.

There is a particular kind of courage required to stand up to someone who holds power over you. It is one thing to recognize injustice. It is another to find your voice when the very person or system causing harm has made you believe that speaking up is pointless.

For trial attorney Genie Harrison, this understanding is not something she learned exclusively in a courtroom. It began much earlier, in a childhood home in deep East Texas, where she found herself protecting her younger brother from an abusive father. Years later, those early experiences would become the foundation of a legal career dedicated to challenging abuses of power and advocating for people who often feel they have none.

Today, Harrison is a prominent women’s rights, employee rights, and survivor rights attorney, as well as the founder of the Genie Harrison Law Firm in Los Angeles. Her work includes representing survivors in some of the country’s most closely watched legal battles, including securing a $17 million recovery involving Harvey Weinstein’s victims and a $100 million gender discrimination settlement involving female employees of Riot Games.

Her firm has recovered more than $245 million for clients, but for Harrison, the numbers only tell part of the story.

The real measure of her work lies in what happens after someone decides to stand up for themselves: the ability to rebuild, regain financial security, hold institutions accountable, and create a future that once felt out of reach.

In a conversation with Jules Schroeder on the Unconventional Life show, Harrison shares the personal experiences that shaped her mission, why she believes survivors must reclaim their agency, and what it means to build a purpose-driven business that refuses to compromise its principles.

When You Can’t Find What You’re Looking For, Build It

Running a law firm means navigating a constant stream of responsibilities. For Harrison, that includes managing clients, leading a business, balancing family life, and participating in leadership roles within the legal community.

Yet despite the demands, she describes her work as her passion and purpose.

The journey to building her own firm, however, wasn’t necessarily something she had always envisioned.

Throughout her career, Harrison worked in a legal profession that historically looked very different from the environment she wanted to be part of. She spent years searching for a professional space that reflected her values and approach to practicing law.

Eventually, she realized that what she wanted didn’t exist.

Rather than settling for an environment that didn’t align with her vision, she decided to create one.

Her law firm became an expression of that decision: a nearly all-women practice focused on employment law, civil rights, and helping survivors and employees navigate difficult circumstances.

For Harrison, entrepreneurship became a way to build the kind of workplace and legal practice she wanted to see in the world.

It’s a philosophy that extends beyond business ownership. Sometimes, the opportunity to create change begins when we stop waiting for existing systems to accommodate us and start building something different.

The Little Girl Who Learned to Stand Up to Bullies

To understand why Harrison dedicates her career to fighting abuses of power, it helps to return to the beginning.

Growing up in deep East Texas, she lived with an alcoholic and abusive father. Her younger brother was often the target of their father’s behavior, while her mother was too frightened to effectively intervene.

As a child, Harrison took it upon herself to protect her brother.

She remembers hearing her father’s truck coming down the street and going to meet him at the door. Rather than allowing him to reach her younger brother, she would deliberately pick an emotional fight with him to redirect his attention.

It wasn’t a physical confrontation. It was a child’s attempt to protect someone she loved using whatever power she had.

That experience became central to her identity.

Harrison explains that she has always been drawn to people who find themselves at a disadvantage, particularly when someone else is abusing their authority.

Her instinct to fight bullies, especially men who misuse their power, eventually developed into a professional commitment to advocating for employees, women, and survivors.

But her experiences with injustice didn’t end in childhood.

Finding Her Voice in Places That Should Have Been Safe

As Harrison grew older, she experienced sexual harassment in educational settings and was sexually abused by a teacher who was also a coach at her school. She later learned that she wasn’t the only person who had experienced abuse from this individual.

Even her time studying abroad at Oxford brought another disturbing experience.

While studying comparative jurisprudence, she encountered a professor who repeatedly made sexually inappropriate comments toward her in an academic setting.

Instead of engaging with her studies, he made explicit remarks and asked her to demonstrate intimate sounds.

For Harrison, these experiences became part of a much larger understanding of how power can be misused, even in environments that carry prestige and authority.

Her story reveals an uncomfortable reality: institutions that are supposed to foster education, growth, and opportunity are not automatically immune to harassment or abuse.

These experiences, alongside her childhood determination to protect her brother, shaped the person she would become.

They also influenced the way she approaches her clients today.

Rather than viewing her personal history as something separate from her professional life, Harrison allows it to inform how she connects with people navigating some of their most difficult moments.

From Victim Land to Survivor Land: The Work of Reclaiming Agency

When Jules asks how Harrison helps people find the courage to speak about their experiences, the conversation moves into one of the most meaningful aspects of her legal philosophy.

Harrison openly shares her own story with clients.

She believes that survivors benefit from knowing they are sitting across from someone who accepts them and understands, through personal experience, some of what they may be facing.

She describes her own journey as moving from “victim land” to “survivor land.”

But she is careful to recognize that no two journeys are identical.

Her role is not to tell clients how they should feel or what decisions they should make. Instead, she wants them to understand their rights, their options, and what each possible course of action involves.

Some may choose to pursue pre-litigation dispute resolution. Others may decide to move forward with litigation.

Either way, Harrison believes the decision should belong to the person who experienced the harm.

That distinction is important.

People who have experienced harassment, discrimination, retaliation, or abuse may already feel that control has been taken away from them. Giving them another set of instructions without allowing them to make their own decisions would only reinforce that experience.

Instead, Harrison works to help clients recognize that their agency remains intact.

Their power hasn’t disappeared. It hasn’t become irretrievable.

As she describes it, part of her work is helping clients excavate the power that is already within them.

For survivors, this can be a transformative realization: reclaiming your voice isn’t about becoming someone else. It’s about recognizing that you still have the right to decide what happens next.

The First Step Toward Reclaiming Power? Write It Down.

One of the most practical pieces of advice Harrison shares is also one of the simplest.

If someone is experiencing harassment, discrimination, retaliation, sexual abuse, or a situation that feels deeply wrong, she encourages them to start journaling.

It doesn’t have to be complicated.

A person can write in a physical notebook, type into their phone, or even dictate their experiences.

What matters is creating a record they can return to.

Harrison explains that people experiencing difficult situations often struggle to recognize the full extent of what is happening. They may question their memories, minimize their experiences, or wonder whether they are overreacting.

Putting those experiences into writing creates an opportunity to examine them more objectively.

She offers a particularly powerful exercise: imagine that the same experience happened to someone you love.

If your best friend, daughter, sister, or mother came to you with the exact story you had written down, what would you tell them?

Would you dismiss their concerns? Would you tell them they were imagining things? Or would you recognize that something wasn’t right?

This simple shift in perspective can help people step outside the self-doubt that often accompanies difficult experiences.

Beyond journaling, Harrison emphasizes the importance of preserving relevant information, including text messages, direct messages, screenshots, photographs, and other documentation.

She also cautions that recording laws differ between states, so anyone considering recording conversations should understand the applicable requirements and seek legal guidance.

Her broader message is to document what happens and consult an experienced attorney who can objectively assess the situation.

It is a reminder that taking action doesn’t necessarily begin with filing a lawsuit. Sometimes, it begins with acknowledging your own experience.

Your Voice Is More Powerful Than You Think

Many people assume that pursuing legal action requires undeniable proof.

They imagine needing video recordings, audio evidence, witnesses, or an admission from the person responsible.

Without these things, they may conclude that nobody will believe them.

Harrison challenges that assumption.

She explains that the legal system is often more nuanced than what people see portrayed in television dramas. A person’s own testimony and statements are evidence of what they experienced.

In situations involving conflicting accounts, attorneys have the responsibility to examine the available facts, identify the evidence, and determine how to present a client’s story in a legally admissible manner.

That is part of the work an experienced lawyer is trained to do.

For someone already struggling with self-doubt, understanding this can make a significant difference.

Harrison encourages people not to automatically disqualify their own experiences because they lack the kind of evidence they believe a case requires.

Their voices and testimony may carry more weight than they realize.

She also offers a timely caution about relying on artificial intelligence for legal assessments.

While AI may provide general information, she warns against expecting it to accurately evaluate the specific circumstances of an individual legal case.

An experienced attorney can assess the details, explain the relevant options, and help someone understand what may be possible.

The distinction matters: knowing that something feels wrong is important, but understanding what can be done about it requires appropriate professional guidance.

The $100 Million Settlement Is Only Part of the Story

Harrison’s legal career includes some significant victories, but her understanding of success goes beyond the amount recovered in a settlement.

Among her notable work is the $100 million gender discrimination settlement involving female employees of Riot Games, which has been described as the largest gender-discrimination settlement in gaming history.

She has also represented survivors in high-profile cases involving Harvey Weinstein.

These outcomes demonstrate the financial consequences of holding individuals and institutions accountable.

But when Jules asks Harrison about the impact of her work, she points to something that happens long after a case has ended.

Former clients sometimes reach out years later to share how their lives have changed.

Some have purchased homes. Others have started families, established financial security, or begun saving for retirement.

These stories mean a great deal to her because they reflect what can become possible when someone steps forward and stands up for themselves.

For Harrison, the purpose of legal representation is not simply to secure compensation.

It is to help people recover and rebuild.

Real Justice Doesn’t End When the Case Closes

One of Harrison’s strongest commitments is to creating structural reform.

She wants to see more than appropriate financial outcomes for individual clients. She also wants organizations and institutions to change the practices that allowed harmful behavior to occur.

That means looking beyond the immediate case and asking what needs to change so that other people do not experience the same circumstances.

She wants to help thousands, potentially tens of thousands, of people who may never know her name or become clients of her firm.

Her vision is a workplace and society where people can pursue their lives, careers, and happiness without experiencing harassment, discrimination, retaliation, or sexual abuse.

This is where her legal practice connects most clearly to her larger purpose.

A settlement can provide financial resources for one person to rebuild. But structural reform can influence the experiences of people who may never have the opportunity to pursue a case themselves.

That broader impact is what Harrison hopes to create.

She wants accountability to lead to meaningful change, not simply a resolution on paper.

And while the legal system can seem intimidating, she believes people should not assume that the possibilities are beyond their reach.

The Entrepreneurial Lesson She Learned Before Building Her Firm

When Jules shifts the conversation toward entrepreneurship, Harrison reveals that starting her own law firm was once one of her greatest fears.

She questioned whether she knew enough about running a business.

She wondered whether she could actually do it.

Looking back, she recognizes how much those questions reflected her internal dialogue.

Her advice to aspiring entrepreneurs is to pay attention to the way they speak to themselves.

Instead of automatically assuming failure, she encourages people to consider what might happen if they assumed the best possible outcome.

She also invites listeners to look back at themselves as children.

The little girl she once was could never have imagined the life she lives today, the work she does, or the impact she has created.

Yet that is precisely the point.

We often underestimate what is possible because we evaluate our future using the limitations of our present perspective.

Harrison encourages people to take the first step even when it feels terrifying, recognize their potential, and surround themselves with people who genuinely support them.

For her, confidence isn’t necessarily something that arrives before action.

Sometimes, it develops because you take action despite your fears.

A Daily Practice of Positive Self-Talk

During the rapid-fire round, Harrison shares more about the personal practices that support her success.

One of her non-negotiables is physical activity.

She commits to working out every day, carving out an hour for herself through activities such as biking and jogging.

She also emphasizes positive self-talk and assuming the best outcome in different situations.

Rather than automatically rehearsing everything that could go wrong, she encourages people to identify what they want and practice maintaining a positive perspective.

It is a philosophy that connects directly to her entrepreneurial journey.

When she first considered starting her firm, her internal dialogue focused on what she didn’t know.

Now, she encourages others to replace that narrative with a more empowering possibility: they may be capable of far more than they can currently imagine.

Her message is not that challenges will disappear or that every outcome is guaranteed.

It is that the way we approach uncertainty can influence whether we allow fear to keep us from moving forward.

What It Really Means to Live an Unconventional Life

Toward the end of the conversation, Jules asks Harrison what living an unconventional life means to her.

Her answer brings together nearly every theme explored throughout the interview.

For Harrison, it means having a genuinely purpose-driven business.

Not simply claiming to have one, but making decisions every day that align with her principles, core beliefs, and understanding of right and wrong.

It also means having the courage to stand up for those beliefs, even when facing intimidating circumstances, powerful individuals, or established systems.

She acknowledges that doing what she believes is right isn’t always popular.

But popularity is not what defines success for her.

It is the ability to live in alignment with her values, even when doing so requires going against expectations.

Her perspective is especially meaningful in a world where success is often measured through revenue, recognition, and professional milestones.

Harrison’s accomplishments are considerable, but her definition of success is rooted in something much more personal.

It is about having the courage to stand up, create change, and remain true to what matters most.

As she looks toward the future, she also hopes that human connection will remain central to how people work, live, and support one another.

Love, community, and genuine human relationships are not secondary to progress. They are part of what makes progress meaningful.

And perhaps that is the most important lesson from her conversation with Jules Schroeder.

You don’t have to wait until you feel powerful to stand up for what you believe in. You don’t have to wait until the perfect opportunity appears to build something meaningful. And you don’t have to abandon your principles to achieve success.

Sometimes, the most unconventional thing you can do is simply refuse to surrender the parts of yourself that know what is right.

 

What began with a puppy, a wooded area, and a curious new dog owner eventually became the foundation for an entirely new category in pet care.

For Tim Vogel, co-founder and CEO of Scenthound, the journey into the pet industry started with a simple experience that made him curious about the bond between humans and dogs.

Today, that curiosity has evolved into a much bigger mission: helping people become better dog parents through routine hygiene, wellness, education, and technology.

But behind the business is a philosophy that reaches far beyond pet care.

For Tim, it is ultimately about connection.

It Started With a Puppy Who Followed Him

Before Scenthound, Tim was living in Washington, D.C., where he met his wife and eventually started building a family.

The sequence was almost humorous in its simplicity. They got a plant. The plant survived. Then they got a dog. The dog survived. Then they decided they were ready to have kids.

While transitioning between companies, Tim had an opportunity to take a month off. It was the perfect window to get a puppy, and he quickly became fascinated with learning everything he could about raising one.

One book introduced him to the idea of dogs as pack animals and the importance of establishing leadership. Tim followed one of its suggestions and took his puppy into a safe, wooded area.

He put the puppy down and walked away.

About 30 seconds later, he looked down.

The puppy was right on his heel.

For Tim, it was more than a training exercise. It was a moment of connection.

That experience sent him down a rabbit hole of learning about the human-animal bond and the co-evolution of humans and dogs. It also planted the first seed of an idea that would eventually shape his career.

We’ve Been Evolving Alongside Dogs for Thousands of Years

Tim’s fascination with dogs goes well beyond their role as household companions.

Humans and dogs have been evolving alongside each other for more than 10,000 years, he explains. Originally, dogs served practical functions. They protected villages, helped with hunting, herded animals, retrieved game, protected homes, controlled pests, and even pulled carts.

In many ways, dogs became employees.

But their role has changed.

Dogs moved from the woods to the field, from the field to the backyard, from the backyard into the house, and eventually, as Tim puts it, from the house to the pillow.

The modern dog is increasingly a member of the family.

And Tim believes that transformation has changed the way humans should think about caring for them.

He is particularly fascinated by how closely dogs seem to track human emotions. He points to research around dogs’ ability to detect pheromones and hormones, read facial expressions and gestures, and respond to human emotional states.

He also describes a study in which researchers monitored the heart rates of dogs and their owners and found that the dogs’ heart rates synchronized with their owners.

For Tim, this is evidence of just how extraordinary the human-dog relationship can be.

The Dog Beside You May Be Doing More Than You Think

Tim’s experience in the pet industry has also given him a front-row seat to the changing role dogs play in people’s lives.

His businesses survived both the Great Recession and the pandemic, and he noticed a significant increase in dog ownership during both periods.

Part of that, he believes, came from people’s need for companionship and emotional support during stressful periods.

Dogs can reduce stress. They can provide comfort. They can become part of a person’s everyday routine.

Tim even connects this shift to the rise of smaller breeds that can more easily accompany their owners into restaurants, shopping centers, airplanes, and other parts of daily life.

His observation is simple: people aren’t just keeping dogs at home anymore.

They are taking them everywhere.

And that growing integration between dogs and their owners has created new expectations around what it means to care for them.

The Problem Was Hiding in Plain Sight

Tim’s first business in the pet industry was mobile grooming.

Eventually, he moved into brick-and-mortar locations, where he was able to solve some of the challenges that made the mobile model difficult to scale.

But the biggest insight came during an ordinary neighborhood encounter.

Tim was walking his dog when he met a neighbor who had recently moved into the area. When the neighbor learned that Tim owned a grooming business, he said he would use it, but his dog didn’t need a groomer.

Tim looked at the dog.

He noticed that its nails were disfigured. He could smell an ear infection.

The owner simply didn’t know.

And that was Tim’s aha moment.

The issue wasn’t necessarily that dog parents didn’t care.

There was a gap between wanting to be a good dog parent and knowing what good dog care actually required.

Traditional grooming was largely associated with aesthetics and haircuts. But most dogs don’t need elaborate haircuts.

They still need basic hygiene.

That distinction became the foundation for Scenthound.

What If Dog Wellness Had a Fourth Essential?

Tim describes traditional dog care as having three major pillars:

Nutrition.

Exercise and enrichment.

Veterinary care.

But he saw another essential that was largely missing from the conversation:

Routine hygiene.

That became the idea behind Scenthound.

The name itself reflects the five areas the company focuses on:

Skin
Coat
Ears
Nails
Teeth

Rather than positioning the business simply as another grooming company, Tim wanted to create a place where dog parents could consistently take care of these foundational aspects of their dog’s wellbeing.

The company also introduced the Scent Check, which gives dog parents a report on their dog’s skin, coat, ears, nails, and teeth, along with recommendations.

The goal is not just to clean the dog.

It is to help the person understand their dog better.

Don’t Sell the New Paradigm. Meet People Where They Are.

Creating an entirely new category comes with a problem: people don’t necessarily know they need it.

Tim describes this as the “gravity” of an old paradigm.

People naturally return to what they already understand.

So instead of telling someone, “You need routine hygiene for your dog,” Scenthound starts somewhere familiar.

Come get your dog washed.

Get the nails clipped.

Get the ears cleaned.

Get the teeth brushed.

Make it fast, easy, and affordable.

Then, once the dog is there, the education begins.

The Scent Check gives the dog parent a clearer picture of what is happening with their dog. The team can explain what they are seeing, provide recommendations, and introduce the idea of regular care.

The customer journey therefore shifts from:

“I don’t want to wash my own dog.”

to:

“I want to be a great dog parent. What do I need to do?”

That is how Tim describes the process of creating a category one dog parent at a time and one location at a time.

It is also a powerful lesson for entrepreneurs building something people don’t yet know they need.

Sometimes category creation isn’t about convincing people to want something completely new.

It is about helping them recognize a need that has been sitting in front of them all along.

The Next Chapter May Be About Data

Tim’s vision for Scenthound doesn’t stop at physical locations.

One of his early insights was that the company was also a data business.

With large numbers of dogs visiting regularly, Scenthound can collect information across individual dogs over time.

Tim sees an opportunity to use that information to move from proactive care toward predictive care.

Imagine knowing a dog’s history, seeing how it changes over time, and using that information to make increasingly personalized recommendations.

Instead of asking dog parents to become experts themselves, Tim envisions a system that can help answer a much simpler question:

What is the next most powerful thing I can do for my dog?

He talks about the potential for personalized wellness recommendations, wellness indexes, longevity scores, and other tools that could help simplify the experience of being a dog parent.

In his vision, technology becomes an “easy button” for people who want to care for their dogs well without having to think about every detail themselves.

In an AI World, People Still Want Relationships

That vision makes Scenthound’s physical presence even more interesting.

While Tim is enthusiastic about artificial intelligence and proprietary data, he doesn’t see technology as a replacement for human connection.

The physical experience still matters.

A robot isn’t washing your dog.

And people still want relationships.

For Tim, the opportunity is in combining the analog and digital worlds: physical locations where people and their dogs interact with people, supported by technology and data that can make the experience increasingly personalized.

It is a distinctly modern business model built around something deeply human.

Connection first.

Technology in service of that connection.

Entrepreneurship Taught Tim to Take Some Hats Off

Building a company at this scale hasn’t always been easy for Tim personally.

He openly describes going through what he calls the “valley of despair” of entrepreneurship.

There were periods when he didn’t take care of himself well. He lost balance. He lost his health.

But as Scenthound grew, something changed.

Tim realized he didn’t need to personally carry every part of the business.

He could identify where he created the most value, then bring in people who were better equipped to handle the areas that consumed too much of his energy.

He describes this as becoming clearer about his own “superpower.”

The more mature he became as an entrepreneur, the more he learned that growth isn’t necessarily about adding more responsibilities.

Sometimes it is about removing the right ones.

His Superpower Now Is Telling the Story

Today, Tim says he is particularly focused on storytelling.

Not storytelling as a marketing gimmick, but storytelling as a leadership tool.

For him, a compelling vision can attract the right people to a mission. It can help people understand the difference they are trying to make. It can bring a group of people together around something larger than themselves.

A business coach once told him that “contribution is the cure to all anxiety.”

Tim says he believes it.

That belief has shaped the way he thinks about both leadership and Scenthound’s mission.

How do you help people find their why?

How do you help them connect that why to a mission?

And how do you get a group of people contributing toward something that makes the world a little better?

For Tim, Scenthound is one expression of that philosophy: helping people practice love every day through their relationship with their dogs.

“My Purpose in Life Is About Connection”

When Jules asks Tim to finish the sentence, “If you really knew me, you would know…” his answer brings the entire conversation into focus.

His purpose, he says, is about connection.

He is here to help people develop better connections.

That answer explains much of the journey he has shared.

The puppy that sparked his curiosity.

The human-dog bond that became his life’s work.

The business designed to help dog parents care for their animals.

The team he is building around a shared mission.

And the storytelling that helps bring people into that mission.

The business may be about dog wellness, but the philosophy underneath it is about relationships.

Believe You Have Something to Contribute

Tim’s advice to entrepreneurs is straightforward, although he admits it sounds cliché.

Believe in yourself.

You’re enough.

You’re worthy.

You’ve got something to contribute.

He says this was something he personally struggled to fully believe earlier in his journey, but that it has become easier over time.

It is a fitting lesson from someone whose business was built around recognizing a need that other people had not yet clearly articulated.

Before you can convince other people to believe in a new possibility, you have to be willing to believe that you have something worth bringing into the world.

The Quiet Practice That Keeps Him Grounded

For all the complexity of building a growing company, Tim’s daily grounding practice is remarkably simple.

Every morning, he creates 45 minutes to an hour for himself.

Sometimes that means a workout.

Sometimes it is a walk.

The specific activity matters less than creating uninterrupted space to simply be with his own thoughts.

That morning practice, he says, has helped keep him grounded.

For an entrepreneur whose days are filled with decisions, teams, growth, data, and strategy, making room for silence may be one of his most important habits.

So, What Does an Unconventional Life Look Like?

When Jules asks Tim what living an unconventional life means to him, his answer is almost disarmingly simple.

“Let’s do stuff.”

We all like comfort, he says. We are afraid of change and uncertainty.

But Tim believes the bold ones live the richest lives.

So his philosophy is not about having a perfectly mapped-out unconventional path.

It is about taking action.

Trying something.

Following curiosity.

Moving toward uncertainty instead of allowing it to make the decision for you.

Let’s go do something.

And perhaps that’s the thread that connects Tim’s entire story.

A puppy followed him into the woods.

He followed his curiosity into the pet industry.

He followed a gap in the market into a new category.

He followed the data toward a new vision for dog wellness.

And now he is following a deeper sense of purpose around connection and contribution.

That is what makes his version of an unconventional life less about breaking away from the traditional path and more about being willing to follow an idea far enough to discover where it leads.

---

Giveaway: A Year of Free Scenthound Services

Tim and Scenthound are giving one listener a year of free services at Scenthound, in the form of a yearlong membership.

At the time of the interview, Tim shared that Scenthound had 72 locations across the country and was opening about one location a week, with another 70 expected to open the following year.

Even if Scenthound isn’t in your neighborhood yet, Tim said, “hopefully we will be soon.”

To enter, head over to UnconventionalLifeShow.com and click on the Giveaway tab.

As Jules notes in the episode, giveaways are open for one week after the episode airs, so make sure to catch Unconventional Life every Monday so you don’t miss one.

Connect With Tim

• Scenthound: Scenthound.com
• Scenthound Franchising: ScenthoundFranchising.com

• Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timvogel/

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/Scenthound

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ClubScenthound

For years, JP Newman operated in the world of big money.

Over a 23-year career in commercial real estate, he worked with thousands of investors and was involved in approximately $2 billion in transactions across the South and Southwest. From the outside, it looked like the kind of career that would provide a clear answer to the question most people spend their lives asking: How do I become financially successful?

But the more wealthy people JP encountered, the more he noticed something unexpected.

They still felt scarce.

They still worried about losing what they had.

They still moved the finish line.

And eventually, JP realized that the problem wasn’t necessarily greed. It was fear.

That realization became the foundation for Fulfillionaire, his work helping people rethink their relationship with money and build financial lives around what actually matters to them.

As JP puts it, the goal isn’t simply to make more money. It’s to understand what the money is for.

The Billion-Dollar Question: How Much Is Enough?

During his years in commercial real estate, JP began noticing a pattern among wealthy investors.

Someone with $1 million wanted $2 million. Someone with $2 million wanted $4 million. The number kept moving.

The deeper question was: When does someone actually feel like they’ve won?

JP believes many people never answer that question.

“If you don’t know what winning feels like in your nervous system,” he explains, “you just keep on the treadmill.”

His perspective was shaped not only by real estate but also by his work with nonprofits. After launching two nonprofits, including Veritas, JP witnessed situations where people with extraordinary wealth would make surprisingly small donations, while people with considerably less money sometimes gave much more generously.

It changed the way he understood scarcity.

Rather than automatically interpreting financial caution as greed, JP began seeing the fear underneath it: the uncertainty of not knowing whether there would ever truly be enough.

He could hear the justifications people made for holding back. More importantly, he could sense that many of them genuinely wanted to contribute more.

“They were just uncertain,” he says.

That realization became the birth of Fulfillionaire.

Before You Change Your Finances, Understand Your Money Story

For JP, the psychology of money begins long before someone opens a bank account or makes their first investment.

It begins in childhood.

Jules shares her own experience of growing up in a family where money was deeply connected to economic freedom and scarcity. JP responds by pointing directly toward what he calls money stories: the beliefs and messages people absorb from parents, grandparents, religious institutions, and their surrounding culture.

JP had his own.

He was taught not to leave food on his plate. He was told, in one way or another, that you couldn’t have it all.

So when he eventually began making money, he expected to feel happy.

Instead, he became fearful.

He describes experiencing panic and neurosis for roughly a year because he didn’t have an internal framework for what was happening.

The money had changed.

His nervous system hadn’t caught up.

That distinction is central to JP’s philosophy.

You can change your circumstances without changing the internal operating system you use to experience those circumstances.

And if that operating system is still programmed around scarcity, more money doesn’t automatically create more peace.

Why a Money Workshop Starts With Breathwork

That is also why JP’s approach doesn’t begin with spreadsheets.

His three-day workshops often begin with breathwork.

To some people, starting a money and fulfillment workshop with breathwork might sound unusual. For JP, it makes perfect sense.

Before discussing financial tactics, cash flow, liquidity, or wealth-building strategies, he wants people to understand the beliefs and emotional patterns they bring into the conversation.

His premise is simple: the nervous system has to catch up to where your life is now.

If someone grew up believing there was never enough, suddenly having more doesn’t necessarily feel safe.

If someone believes that losing money means losing everything, they may continue operating from fear even after achieving financial success.

JP calls this the process of installing a new operating principle.

The financial tactics matter.

But first, the person has to be ready to receive and sustain them.

The “Oh Sh*t” Number That Changes Everything

As the conversation moves from psychology into practical strategy, JP introduces one of the most tangible ideas of the interview: the safety number.

Jules calls hers the “oh sh*t” number.

It’s the bare minimum amount needed to feel financially safe.

For JP, identifying that number is the first tactical step toward creating safety in the nervous system.

The calculation begins with understanding active income, passive income, and the amount required to cover your basic financial needs.

Eventually, the goal is to have passive income covering that baseline.

That’s when something changes.

You don’t necessarily have to stop working.

You simply gain the ability to experiment.

To travel.

To take on an interesting project.

To explore an idea.

To say yes without every decision being filtered through financial survival.

And that, JP argues, is closer to what people were actually chasing in the first place.

Because people don’t necessarily want money.

They want what they believe money will give them.

Freedom. Safety. Peace.

Stop Chasing a Net Worth. Start Designing a Life.

JP has little interest in financial goals that exist primarily to sound impressive.

When someone tells him, “I want to be worth $10 million,” or “I want to double my business,” he sees those as what he jokingly calls “cocktail stories.”

They sound good.

But they don’t necessarily tell you what someone actually wants.

He shares a story from one of his workshops about a woman who said she wanted $50 million in cash.

JP asked why.

Her answer?

Her husband was nervous, and she thought reaching $50 million would make him less nervous.

Then he asked what she would do with the money.

Her first answer was that she’d spend $10 million on shoes.

The laughter makes the story memorable, but JP’s point is serious.

If you don’t know what you actually want, choosing a massive financial number doesn’t solve the problem.

It’s like being invited to someone’s house without being given the address.

How are you supposed to get there?

Meet the 4 P’s of a Fulfillionaire

This is where JP introduces the framework at the heart of his work.

He calls it the 4 P’s.

But first, he makes an important distinction about prosperity.

Prosperity isn’t the destination.

For JP, prosperity is embodied health across the mind, body, and soul, combined with a financial plan that supports the life you’re trying to create.

Prosperity is the fuel.

The destination is the 4 P’s.

Purpose Wealth: Know Your North Star

The first is Purpose Wealth.

This is your connection to meaning.

It might mean becoming a great parent, partner, business leader, mentor, or what JP currently describes as a “wisdom keeper.”

Purpose Wealth answers a fundamental question:

What do I want my life to mean?

Without that answer, financial growth can become an endless exercise in accumulation.

With it, money becomes a resource for expressing what matters.

People Wealth: Don’t Build a Rich Life Alone

The second is People Wealth, which JP defines as your connection to love.

It begins with the relationship you have with yourself, then expands into your relationships with the people around you.

For JP, this is also one of the things that makes us human.

In an increasingly AI-driven world, deep connection remains uniquely human.

The deeper the relationships, the greater the experience of love.

And that is a form of wealth too.

Presence Wealth: You Don’t Need More Time

The third is Presence Wealth.

JP deliberately rejects the popular idea of “time wealth.”

Everyone gets the same amount of time.

The question is what happens inside those minutes.

Someone can technically have an entire free afternoon and still spend the entire thing responding to their phone, checking messages, over-caffeinating, and operating from a frantic state.

Presence Wealth asks a different question:

How many of your minutes are actually quality minutes?

Being alive isn’t necessarily the same as being present.

For JP, true wealth includes the ability to experience your own life while you’re living it.

Play Wealth: Make Room for Aliveness

The final P is Play Wealth.

This is the connection to joy and aliveness.

And JP believes people often underestimate it because they imagine play has to be something extravagant.

It doesn’t.

It could be a dinner party with your closest friends.

Playing pickleball.

Singing karaoke.

Getting into a state of flow where you lose track of time.

Play creates space for creativity.

And creativity, JP argues, changes how people lead, think, build businesses, and experience their lives.

Purpose gives direction.

People create connection.

Presence brings you into the moment.

Play brings you back to aliveness.

Together, they form the foundation of the Fulfillionaire philosophy.

Your Financial Plan Is Backward If You Haven’t Designed Your Life

One of JP’s biggest challenges to traditional financial planning is that people often create the financial plan first.

He believes the order should be reversed.

First, design the life.

Then determine what that life costs.

Then build the financial strategy to support it.

JP recommends looking at the next 12 to 24 months, rather than trying to imagine every detail of the next decade.

What would your ideal life look like?

What are your non-negotiables?

Maybe it’s quality vacations.

Maybe it’s dinner with your family.

Maybe it’s traveling with your spouse.

Maybe it’s something as simple as flying business class instead of economy.

Those details matter because they allow you to create what JP calls your freedom number.

And that number doesn’t have to be enormous.

It can change over time.

If you’re making $200,000 today, perhaps your next freedom number is $225,000 because that additional $25,000 creates the experience you actually care about.

The number is born from the life.

Not the other way around.

Give Your Dream an Address

JP returns to a metaphor that captures his philosophy beautifully.

If someone tells you they’re inviting you to their house but doesn’t give you the address, you can’t get there.

The same is true for the life you’re trying to create.

Once you’ve named the destination, your brain can start recognizing the people, opportunities, ideas, and possibilities that might help you get there.

JP believes this is where synchronicity begins to show up.

Without a destination, people can end up relying on what he jokingly calls their financial strategy:

Hope and pray.

His verdict is immediate:

“Hope and pray is not a strategy.”

The Real Goal: From Scarcity to Abundance to Servant Leadership

For JP, the ultimate objective isn’t simply financial independence.

It’s transformation.

He wants people to move from scarcity to abundance in their nervous system, and from abundance into servant leadership.

That’s where his philosophy around money comes full circle.

When you’re constantly worried about having enough, you hold back.

You protect.

You accumulate.

You build walls around your resources.

But when you experience enough safety and fulfillment, money can begin to move differently.

JP compares currency to a river with a current.

When you’re aligned with money, giving and receiving can flow.

When you’re operating from scarcity, you dam it up with the constant thought:

“I need more.”

Fulfillment changes the relationship.

You can create a financial plan that supports the destination while actually enjoying the journey toward it.

And JP believes that journey matters.

You don’t have to wait until you reach some enormous financial milestone before you allow yourself to experience progress.

Maybe it’s a $5,000 bonus that finally pays for the trip you’ve been waiting to take.

Maybe it’s an unexpected opportunity.

Maybe it’s simply the ability to say yes.

The point is to recognize those moments as part of the win.

There is no final finish line where life finally begins.

Freedom Means Leaving Room for the Unexpected

When Jules asks JP what living an unconventional life means to him, his answer is immediate:

Freedom.

He tells the story of receiving an invitation to go to China. He asked his wife, she said yes, and he was able to entertain the possibility because of the freedom he had created.

But his most meaningful example isn’t necessarily a luxury trip.

It’s a three-day experience in Utah with a young man in his late twenties whom JP describes as someone who seemed to have lived “90,000 lives.”

Despite his own experience, JP found himself learning from someone decades younger.

That, to him, is another form of wealth.

Freedom created the space for an unexpected encounter.

That encounter expanded him.

And it reminded him that even when you think you’ve learned everything, life can still surprise you.

“It’s leaving that space,” JP says, “so that you can have that full breath of experience.”

Becoming Your Own Fulfillionaire

JP Newman didn’t build Fulfillionaire because he needed another financial success story.

He built it because after years of watching people accumulate wealth, he became fascinated by the question of what happens after the money arrives.

His answer is that money alone isn’t the destination.

The real work is discovering what makes you feel safe, what gives your life meaning, who you want beside you, how you want to experience your days, and what makes you feel alive.

Then you can build the financial strategy around that vision.

Because knowing your numbers matters.

But knowing what the numbers are for may matter even more.

And perhaps the most unconventional financial goal of all isn’t becoming a millionaire.

It’s becoming a Fulfillionaire.

Giveaway

JP Newman is offering Unconventional Lifers a way to get started with his approach to wealth and fulfillment.

Head to Fulfillionaire.com and start with “Wealth On Your Terms,” a resource JP recommends as a starting point for empowerment. You can also sign up for his free newsletter and learn more about his workshops in Austin and Powder Mountain.

Connect with JP:

• Website: https://fulfillionaire.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jpnewman_/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jp-newman-45a1ba/

Technology is often designed to help us move faster.

Faster communication. Faster work. Faster answers. Faster access to information.

But what if the next evolution of technology isn’t about helping us do more?

What if it is about helping us become more aware?

That question sits at the center of Lyle Maxson’s work. A technologist, entrepreneur, and futurist, Lyle has spent years exploring the intersection of artificial intelligence, immersive technology, mental health, consciousness, and human potential. His work is guided by a philosophy he calls benevolent technology, a framework for using exponential technologies to propel humanity forward while deepening self-awareness, emotional intelligence, presence, and human connection.

Now, as the founder and CEO of ABOVE, Lyle is taking that philosophy into a new frontier with what he calls Reflective AI.

The Question Behind Everything: Can Technology Make Us More Human?

Lyle’s career may span seemingly different worlds, but he says there has always been a through-line.

Benevolent technology.

For Lyle, the question isn’t simply whether a technology is powerful. It is what we choose to do with that power.

“How do we utilize all this exponential technology to actually propel humanity forward?” he asks.

That distinction becomes increasingly important as artificial intelligence becomes embedded into everyday life.

The prevailing conversation around AI often centers on productivity, efficiency, automation, and convenience. Lyle is interested in a different possibility: using technology to help people become more connected rather than more distracted.

His goal is not to create technology that replaces the human experience.

It is to create technology that strengthens it.

We’ve Been Tracking Everything Except the Human Experience

When Jules asks Lyle what people may be missing in the larger technology conversation, he points to an emerging category that remains relatively unfamiliar: consciousness technology.

Most conversations about “tech for good” tend to revolve around familiar categories such as education, physical fitness, mental health, physiology, and longevity.

Consciousness technology is different.

Lyle explains that its evolution has happened in waves.

The first wave emerged in the 1980s with biofeedback and neurofeedback, giving people ways to understand brain activity, brainwave states, and how those states could be influenced.

The second wave arrived through more educational and experiential technologies in the 2000s and 2010s, including meditation-oriented tools and platforms such as Muse, Headspace, and Calm.

Now, Lyle believes we are entering a third wave.

AI and spatial computing are making it possible to create experiences that are far more personalized and connected to an individual’s actual growth journey. Rather than simply providing generalized guidance, technology can begin responding to the person using it.

And that opens up an entirely different question:

What if technology could help us understand not just what is happening in our lives, but why?

From Video Games to “Upgrading the Real-World Avatar”

Lyle’s interest in this space didn’t begin with artificial intelligence.

Earlier in his career, he worked in video game publishing and became fascinated by the possibility of using games for something beyond entertainment.

He explored what he described as “Games for Good,” designing experiences intended to create positive mind-body effects, including meditation and physical fitness-related games.

His thinking was simple but unconventional: instead of spending all our time upgrading fictional characters inside virtual worlds, what if technology could help us upgrade the real-world avatar that is ourselves?

That idea eventually led him into digital therapeutics.

Lyle and a co-founder took intellectual property they had been developing in gaming and moved into medical technology, exploring clinical trials and FDA-regulated digital therapeutics at a time when the category was still relatively new.

From there, his path continued into immersive technology.

Lyle connected with partners and members of Meta’s executive team, eventually receiving a significant grant to build a consumer VR education platform. The vision was to transform traditional e-learning into what he called “vLearning,” moving from passive, two-dimensional experiences into social, spatial, interactive environments.

Then came another pivot.

After a sabbatical, Lyle was exposed to AI hardware.

And he noticed the same problem again.

Technology was becoming increasingly powerful, but much of its focus remained on productivity.

What was missing was mindfulness.

What was missing was connection.

“How do you use these technologies, not to just make people more productive, but actually make them more connected?” became the question.

Meet Reflective AI: The Technology That Acts Like a Mirror

That question ultimately became ABOVE.

The term “Reflective AI” came from the way Lyle and his team were thinking about the technology.

Lyle had been calling the AI they were developing a mirror.

A friend eventually gave the concept a name: Reflective AI.

The distinction matters.

Lyle doesn’t see AI as something that should make every decision for us. In fact, he describes himself as leaning closer to the Luddite side of the technology spectrum than the techno-optimist side.

He doesn’t believe technology is going to save humanity.

Instead, he is interested in using technology intentionally.

As the team developed the underlying AI infrastructure for ABOVE, they became increasingly aware of the bias present in existing AI systems. Different foundational models can produce different answers based on what they have been trained on, the information they contain, and the perspectives embedded within them.

For a tool intended to help someone understand themselves, Lyle believed that was a problem.

So ABOVE was designed around a different premise: make the technology as objective as possible and minimize the lens of bias, dogma, or unsolicited advice.

Instead, it reflects the person back to themselves.

Lyle compares it to having a good friend who can step outside the relationship and offer an honest perspective.

Not necessarily what you want to hear.

But sometimes what you need to hear.

It might surface hard truths. It might reflect patterns. It might point toward ways someone could show up differently.

The technology isn’t supposed to tell you who to become.

It is designed to help you see yourself more clearly.

What If Your Wearable Could Tell You the Why?

Lyle describes ABOVE as the “first wearable for your mind.”

That positioning becomes clearer when he compares it with the wearables people already know.

Today, people can track sleep, steps, activity, fitness, blood markers, and other physiological data.

But those measurements largely tell us what is happening.

Your sleep score is low.

Your activity is down.

Your motivation has changed.

But the more interesting question may be:

Why?

Lyle’s vision is to connect the mental, emotional, and relational dimensions to the physical data people are already collecting.

Why was your sleep score bad?

Could it have something to do with the argument you had with a coworker three times this week?

Why aren’t you motivated to work out?

What else is happening beneath the surface?

ABOVE also encourages users to use the device as an audio journal, whether they’re driving, walking, beginning their morning, or simply processing their thoughts.

The more insight a person gives the system into how they think about the world, the more it can reflect those patterns back to them and potentially help steer better outcomes.

That is where the concept becomes bigger than a wearable.

It’s not simply measuring the body.

It’s creating a feedback loop for awareness.

Technology as Training Wheels for Consciousness

Lyle doesn’t position ABOVE as a replacement for human relationships or existing personal-growth practices.

Instead, he describes it as supplemental.

A friend of his calls it “training wheels for consciousness.”

The idea is that the technology can help people notice things they may otherwise miss, while still bringing those insights back into the real world and into relationships with actual humans.

That distinction is particularly important to Lyle because he sees a darker side to the rapidly evolving relationship between humans and AI.

He believes we need to keep a human in the loop rather than allowing AI to make our decisions for us.

He also raises concerns about AI companionship and the speed at which artificial systems can create attachment and intimacy, particularly when platforms are designed around keeping users engaged.

For Lyle, that is precisely the wrong direction.

The goal shouldn’t be deeper dependence on technology.

The goal should be deeper connection with ourselves and with other people.

The Missing Piece in Personal Growth Might Be Personalization

Traditional personal-growth tools can be incredibly valuable.

Meditation apps. Books. Courses. Retreats. Therapy. Workshops.

But they generally offer a generalized experience to a large group of people.

AI introduces the possibility of something different: personalization at scale.

Instead of giving everyone the same meditation, the same lesson, or the same reflection, technology can begin responding to an individual’s unique patterns and growth journey.

For Lyle, that’s where consciousness technology becomes particularly interesting.

The technology isn’t the destination.

Awareness is.

Two Years to the Starting Line

Building ABOVE wasn’t an overnight experiment.

By the time Lyle and Jules spoke, the company had been roughly two years in the making.

And even after all that work, Lyle joked that they had only just reached the starting line.

The wearable had launched approximately six weeks earlier, making the conversation less about celebrating a finished product and more about stepping into the beginning of an entirely new experiment.

That may be one of the most revealing parts of Lyle’s story.

For someone working at the frontier of technology, there is still a willingness to admit that the work is unfinished.

The product is evolving.

The category is emerging.

And the larger question remains open:

Can technology genuinely help us become more conscious?

Beyond What Society Says We Should Want

Near the end of the conversation, Jules asks Lyle what living an unconventional life means to him.

His answer brings the entire conversation full circle.

“Following your Dharma.”

For Lyle, living unconventionally isn’t simply about rejecting conventional paths for the sake of being different.

It is about following purpose and passion regardless of what society says you should do.

He acknowledges that this path can be more difficult than choosing comfort, convenience, or the job that appears safe from the outside.

He remembers a tarot card he used to pull regularly: “Not all that glitters is gold.”

The lesson stayed with him.

Look beyond the superficial markers society tells us to pursue.

Follow your heart.

Follow your passions.

And, importantly, build something that supports not only yourself, but your community and the world around you.

Use that as your North Star.

The Future of Technology Might Be More Human

Lyle Maxson’s work sits at an unusual intersection.

Technology and consciousness.

Artificial intelligence and self-awareness.

Wearables and emotional intelligence.

Innovation and the deeply human need for connection.

But perhaps the most unconventional part of his philosophy is that he isn’t asking us to choose between humanity and technology.

He’s asking us to rethink what technology is for.

The next generation of technology doesn’t have to pull us further away from ourselves.

It can help us notice.

Reflect.

Understand.

And ultimately, connect.

The future may not belong to the technology that captures the most attention.

It may belong to the technology that helps us become more aware of where that attention is going in the first place.

A Special Giveaway for Unconventional Life Listeners

As part of the launch of ABOVE, Lyle is giving one lucky Unconventional Life listener an ABOVE wearable.

Because ABOVE had not yet launched its subscription at the time of the interview, Lyle is also including a free one-year subscription for the winner.

Connect with Lyle

• Go Above AI: https://goabove.ai/
• Website: https://lylemaxson.com/
• Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/lylemaxson
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lylemaxson/
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